Adam Price Plaid MP kicked off a debate, of which you can read via this link > Grounds 
for Plaid to claim Chartist legacy - icWales Clearly Vincent and the other Chartists had not thought through in any detail the implications of what a Welsh republic would be like and how it could ...icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/.../2008/03/31/grounds-for-plaid-to-claim-chartist-legacy-91466-20695102/ - 41k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this . I have already commented on this in a previous post in this blog, now in this post I am encouraging continued discussion and debate on this subject and related matters of Socialism and Nationalism, not least in a Welsh Historical and contemporary context.
for Plaid to claim Chartist legacy - icWales Clearly Vincent and the other Chartists had not thought through in any detail the implications of what a Welsh republic would be like and how it could ...icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/.../2008/03/31/grounds-for-plaid-to-claim-chartist-legacy-91466-20695102/ - 41k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this . I have already commented on this in a previous post in this blog, now in this post I am encouraging continued discussion and debate on this subject and related matters of Socialism and Nationalism, not least in a Welsh Historical and contemporary context. .
However, as important I hope this D&D will very much be a commemoration of Chartism in Wales on 160th anniversary of 1848. I can find very little going on in Wales re actual commemorative activity, nor for the 40th anniversary of 1968 - a year of revolt, not without connection back to 1848, in respect to all ''home countries'' of the British Isles and most of Europe. In a nutshell, Adam Price claimed Chartism as a Plaid legacy, hotly disputed by Labour Party in Wales. Adam raised up a Welsh Republican Flag as a Chartist Flag but in reality, a proposed Welsh Chartist Flag was Green, Blue and White, as picture below. This flag was designed by Hugh Williams, see my comments in Flags of the World Web site below. Note my mistaken reference to Hugh Williams being bueried at Llangennech, this is now corrected, he was bueried in the cemetery of St Ishmaels, near Ferryside. Go on a summers day and the road to the church gives you an absolutly fabulous view of the Towy estuary over to Llansteffan in Sir Gar. See pics below of the grave of Hugh Williams, not too hard to find, following entry to the Church turn left and go up the slope to side rear of the Church, close to trees at this back end of the cemetery, you will not miss it if you keep the fotos below in your mind's eye. If you have a family, Ferryside will make a great day out for the kids. Note you can get there by Bus and Train but will have a long walk to St Ishmaels if you have no car.
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I place before you this information on Hugh Williams, although do look up other Welsh Chartists as John Frost. I have picked on Hugh Williams as one man who lives through the period under consideration, personally touching on all the key episodes in this key period of Welsh History, a decade 1839 - 1848 that will shape and change Wales forever, prefoundly so and which makes of our country what it is today, in particular politically. 1848, is a cross roads, as much as 1839 was, although 1848, set much in stone and the story of Hugh Williams will very much present a picture of this. I have not had much opportunity to study the life of Hugh Williams other than in reading books as the classic The Rebecca Riots by David Williams, UWP Cardiff 1955.
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In Hugh Williams one sees a young radical but having read the inscriptions regards he and other family members, in English on the grave stone, I could be forgiven for believing much else. It appears that Hugh Williams was to become as many ''Young Radicals'' of the 1840's, the ''Hungry Forties'', in old age very much in the Welsh context a successful part of the rising Victorian middle classes. Here, I keep in mind what Proff Ifor Wilks has said about the 1839 Newport Rising, ''When the smoke of the Soldiers guns had cleared, the Welsh Middle Class were to realise which side of their bread was buttered''. At this point I draw attention to the infamous BLUE BOOKS of 1848, not alone in suggesting that this is more the legacy to which Welsh Nationalism, Plaid Cymru in particular owes much to, and not Chartism. Of course there is nothing wrong in a contemporay ''Plaid Left'' wishing to identify with Chartism and Vincents ''Welsh Republic'', this was siezed on my the Welsh Republicans of WRM I, not least by Harri Web and the later Proff Ifor Wilks. But historically, British Political Reformism and later Chartism is more a British - Welsh Legacy, myself whilst not rejecting this British - Welsh Political Reformism, nevertheless look back more to Lewis Lewis, Lewsyn yr Heliwr, and the struggle for popular liberty and natural justice began on 31 May 1831 with the rising up of the Red Flag on Hirwaun Common. Full information on, you will find in previous posts to this blog.
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My judgement of Hugh Williams does not give a complete picture of the man or of his radical beliefs and career, for more information, read aforementioned book also see outline in > The National Library of Wales :: Dictionary of Welsh Biography Hugh Williams is important because of his connections with the Chartist ... In 1836 he organised, at Carmarthen, the first radical meeting in South Wales. ...yba.llgc.org.uk/en/s-WILL-HUG-1796.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this also see > Modern Wales: A Concise History, C. 1485-1979 - Google Books Result by Gareth Elwyn Jones - 1984 - History - 376 pagesThe Unitarians, especially strong in Merthyr, added a particularly radical element. There were leaders of high calibre - Hugh Williams of Carmarthen, ...books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0521469457... also see > Chartist Flags (United Kingdom) - 06:31 Designed by Hugh Williams, the Old Rebeccite, who I believe is buried in Llangenech. ... So maybe these Welsh blue / violet / red triband flags are actually ...www.crwflags.com/FOTW/FLAGS/gb_chart.html - 15k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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Do also consider other Chartists as Welsh Socialist, Republican and Nationalist Hero John Frost (Chartist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Chartist movement in south east Wales was chaotic in this period, ... John Frost Square, in the centre of Newport, is named in his honour. ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frost_(Chartist) - 28k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this also see other Chartists as Zephaniah Williams and William Jones, not least Dr William Price.
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A Welsh Nationalist Hero? Perhaps not so much today, although Newport Tories in a Welsh Heroes poll put forward his name, in main because he put down the workers in 1839, see link > Blaenau Gwent County Borough Council - Sir Thomas Phillips 22 Mar 2007 ... Sir Thomas Phillips was born at Ynys y Garth - the row of cottages ... active in local politics and, in 1838, was elected Mayor of Newport. ...www.blaenau-gwent.gov.uk/8032.asp - 19k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this Also See Lady Llanover and all related to the rise of Victorian Cultural Nationalism to rise of Political Nationalism as Michael D.Jones and Emrys ap Iwan et al to establishment the Welsh ''nationalist'' Cymru Fydd > Cymru Fydd - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The movement lost some of its impetus following the withdrawal of T. E. Ellis to join the Government in 1892, after which leadership of Cymru Fydd was taken ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymru_Fydd - 19k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this and later of Plaid Cymru > Plaid Cymru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Plaid Cymru (IPA: [plaɪd ˈkəmri]; English: The Party of Wales; often referred to simply as Plaid) is a political party in Wales. ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaid_Cymru - 92k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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CHARTISM 1848 INFORMATION:
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Chartism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Hyperlinked article about the movement for political and social reform in the United Kingdom during the mid-19th century between 1838 and 1848. [Wikipedia]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartism - 49k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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BBC - History - The Chartist Movement 1838 - 1848 A BBC History multimedia presentation of the Chartist movement; includes articles, links, and interactive content.www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/victorians/chartist_01.shtml - 25k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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Chartist Ancestors: Chartism, the Chartists and the People's Charter Chartism, the Chartist movement and the People's Charter: Chartist history resourcs for family historians, social historians and political historians ...www.chartists.net/ - 37k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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The Procession of the 1848 Chartist Petition - 06:20 In April 1848 the final Chartist rally was held at Kennington Common, London, after which the Petition was taken to parliament in three Hackney cabs. ...www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/chartism/1848pet.htm - 14k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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chartists.net news :: Chartist riots in Trafalgar Square 6 Mar 2008 ... Henry Vincent and the 'Welsh republic' · Chartism and the Chartists in university ... Keywords: rising, petition, events, chartist, 1848 ...chartists.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2008/3/6/3562566.html - 33k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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CHARTISM IN WALES: I begin with link to the Scotch Cattle, as whilst much is known about Insurrection 1831 and of the later Rebecca Revolt not so much is known of the Scotch Cattle. As with Lewis Lewis, the leader of the Scotch Cattle Edward Morgan is as often as not kept in the shadows of Welsh History be it of the Labour or the PLAID kind, as to why? I suggest you all D&D as well.
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POPULAR REVOLTS WALES 1831 - 1839 - 1848. Between these years major revolts broke out in South East Wales and South West Wales, the one was a workers revolt and the other a small Farmers and Rural Labourers Revolt. Scotch Cattle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - 06:53 Scotch Cattle was the name taken by bands of coal miners in South Wales, analogous to the Molly Maguires in Pennsylvania, who, in disguise, would visit the ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch_Cattle - 21k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this . The Scotch Cattle were a violent secret underground movement whose story has not been as ''popularised'' as the Rebecca Revolt as you will see by viewing the following excellent Rebecca Country web site, if only the, as deserving Scotch Cattle had the same popular attention, and why not? > Bro Beca Mae straeon eraill am Becca’n gorfodi llanciau i briodi eu cariadon ar ôl i’r ... Cychwynnodd Bro Beca yn 2002 fel prosiect ar y cyd rhwng Rhwydwaith ...www.brobeca.co.uk/beca.html - 28k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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CHARTISM CONTINUED:
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1839 in Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Jump to: navigation, search ... is about the particular significance of the year 1839 to Wales and its people. ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1839_in_Wales - 24k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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BBC - Mid Wales Llanidloes - Chartist Revolt In 1839, Llanidloes was the scene of a major riot as Chartists clashed with police at the Trewythen Arms. Local historian Gay Roberts has written an article ...www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/llanidloes/pages/chartists.shtml - 32k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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1848 in Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Jump to: navigation, search ... is about the particular significance of the year 1848 to Wales and its people. ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1848_in_Wales - 22k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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Chartism after the Newport Rising Nantyglo and Blaina Charter ...... nantyglo and blaina charter group "the unenfranchised rally around your flag ... rising 1839 and kennington common chartist demonstration london 1848, ...chartistnetwork.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1439898%3ABlogPost%3A101 - 35k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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Human Rights: 1815 - 1848 - Poster for a 'Chartist' public meeting ...Poster for a 'Chartist' public meeting at Merthyr Tydvil [ Merthyr Tydfil ]. Date: 20 March 1848. Catalogue reference: HO 45/2410 (5) folio 1001 ...www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/humanrights/1815-1848/doc-chartist-transcript.htm - 32k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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Chartist Flags (United Kingdom) Events ranged from the Peterloo Massacre in 1819 to the last Chartist Petition of 1848, which took place at a time when revolutions were occurring all over ...www.crwflags.com/FOTW/FLAGS/gb_chart.html - 15k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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Background History in General:
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TUC History Online Use our timeline to discover more about the history of the British trade union movement. Click on a time period to find out more. ...www.unionhistory.info/timeline/timeline.php - 10k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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History of socialism in Great Britain - Wikipedia, the free ...From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. (Redirected from History of British ..... The defining event of the 1980s for British socialists was the 1984-5 ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_socialism - 98k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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The Welsh Labour Party: History of the Welsh Labour Party - 10:37 Labour.org.uk. A brief history of the Welsh Labour Party by Professor Duncan Tanner, University of Wales, Bangor. The Labour party in Wales has a formidable ...www.welshlabour.org.uk/history_of_the_welsh_labour_party - 16k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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Treachery of the Blue Books - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Saunders Lewis, in Tynged yr iaith, maintained that the Blue Books were for Welsh history "the most important nineteenth-century historical documents we ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treachery_of_the_Blue_Books - 21k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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Welsh nationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Welsh nationalism is a political and cultural movement that emerged during the nineteenth century. It generally seeks independence from the United Kingdom ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_self-government - 51k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
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History of Plaid Cymru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [99] Professor Laura McAllister, a Plaid Cymru history expert and former party candidate, said that unless the party shed its "pressure group past" it could ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Plaid_Cymru - 218k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this.
Well that's it, hope you have found all that interesting but more hoping it sparks of a good D&D, and that it resolves much for the better? It is interesting to note that Chartist activity in Merthyr in 1848 witnesses a poster being published calling for a 'CHARTER FOR ENGLAND', hhhmmm!!! wonder where Wales fitted into the thinking here! This is how it was with Welsh Radicals, they were often politically of an ''English Mind''. In earlier times even ''Welsh Republicans'' as Iolo Morgannwg and Morgan John Rhys thought in ''Anglo'' Political terms and wished to see a 'Brtitish/English Republic' established. Welsh Radicals of these times were far from being as ''Nationally Minded'' as Irish Republicans or for that matter Irish Socialists. Whatever, maybe much of this could be discussed during MERTHYR RED WEEK 1831 - 2008 COMMEMORATION, unofficially or officially, if some one in Merthyr cares to organise a suitable meeting place for a ''live'' D&D Session on who has the right to claim the Chartist Legacy?
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Keep me posted.
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As it's still May remember, ''Beneath the Paving Stones, the beach! '' don't you just love it? Excellent feature on the World Service the other night, go check out BBC World Service, maybe you can down load it. I am geting ''Right On'' with my coming ''Red Week Outing'' to Paris in June, so will not be able to make Merthyr Rising 1831 events this year.
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Gethin.
